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Author Topic: It's a bird, it's a plane...no----Yes, it's a plane!  (Read 11120 times)
David
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« on: July 07, 2009, 08:37:35 AM »

Hello folks,

Imagine if you will, a quite Fall Sunday morning. You get up to make yourself a nice cup of coffee. You pour the milk, turn to your fridge, and upon turning back to the counter you notice a ripple in the top of your cup of the old “Good to the last drop”.

Seconds later you hear a rumble from above.  

“Is it an earthquake?” …you say to yourself.

No!

It’s just the roaring engine of the DC9 above your house. One of thousands, if not millions you’ll have to quickly accept as flying within only a few hundred feet above your home.

What can you do?  Sell the house and move?

How could you? You just lost an average of about 27% value on your home, just because you now live by an airport. Can you even picture the expression on your face when the realtor brings over the first potential victim and he or she look up and wave at the people looking down at them from approaching aircraft?

Now imagine this…not only do you have to just suck it up and hope you and your family become desensitized to the noise around the clock, you have to hope those heavy aluminum birds of the sky are able to make if off the runway without having to drop off the excess weight. You know---that liquid stuff called “Jet fuel”.

…but hey…wouldn’t you rather cope with the highly flammable, explosive, toxic fuel than to have to deal with the front landing gear totally bulldoze your living room 20 houses down your street? Bad enough the stench of the beaver road kill to now have to smell rotting flesh of the passengers of the plane that thought it could.

Well folks…the above is reality that has been in the makings for the past 9 years. If you are still not aware, the Mt Pocono Airport is currently undergoing construction to expand its runways to accommodate larger jet engine aircrafts.

What I am about to disclose, may come to a surprise to many of you, as well as some of the board members, but did you know Ron Kluge, current board president of this community, saw the whole thing coming, and GROSSLY failed the entire community as a fiduciary by not informing us.

To add insult to injury…at the last meeting (…and this is why we video tape) when asked by a homeowner, “Did you sit on the board for the Airport Planning?”

Ron’s response:

“No. I can honestly tell you no. I can also tell you that, that’s been in discussion, as, as you said, for, since 2000. And--I was just made--aware of that they were discussing about putting the airport, lengthen it, when your husband called me and told me that, that they are working on the process now…

Ron then suggested that we get a political action committee together and that his wife might be interested in being part of the committee as when he mentioned to his wife (after supposedly “Al” contacted him) he casually told her about the rumors of the airport and she was supposedly upset about it.

The same homeowner then asked, “On the other hand, I want you to look at me Ron, I want you to give me your honest opinion; I want you to give me an honest answer! Not your opinion, I want your answer because this is going to count a lot.”
Were you on any kind of public advisory for that airport?


Ron’s Response: “No. I’m on the planning commission, but we had nothing to say reference the airport…the authority and supervisors were the only ones to approve that.”


http://www.coolbaughtwp.org/Township%20Minutes/2008/PC%20Minutes%2005_12_08.pdf
This link above will take you to the Coolbaugh township site—directly to meeting minutes in which Ron was present and clearly shows Ron knew about the expansion far sooner than he mentioned in his answer to the homeowner at the last SLCA board meeting.

http://www.coolbaughtwp.org/Township%20Minutes/2008/PC%20Minutes%2003_10_08%20(3).pdf
This link above will take you to March 2008, which shows that the Planning Commission did sign off for approval of the expansion; though Ron specifically stated otherwise.

http://www.stillwaterlakes.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=117.0;attach=33
The link above will take you to the first page of the minutes in which Ron voted to approve. (obviously knowledgeable vote)

I don’t want to be the one that says who’s a big fat liar here, as you can all come to your own conclusions based on the facts above.
Ron, as member of the township planning commission, as well as board member of this community for well over the 9 years this airport expansion has been in the works, has not only failed grossly as a fiduciary, but has cost the homeowners of this community thousands of dollars in property values.

The ones to suffer the loss in property the most is obviously the homeowners in the direct line of approach and/or take off, but more importantly…those with rather large homes closest to the airport side on Sydney and Nadine, will take the hardest hit for Ron’s political handy work.

So let’s say the myth about security increasing your property value were actually true.----What’s the point if the inevitable airport expansion is going to knock your nest egg off the tree?

Now there are a few questions that beg the answer:

Who else on the board knew of this expansion and kept it quite?

As fiduciaries, what will the other board members that legitimately not know of the expansion do now, as far as their fearless leader I'd like to affectionetly call Judas?

Is the rest of the board ready, willing and able to take on full responsibility along with Ron for decreasing the property values of every single homeowner in this community?

...and last, but surely not...yada, yada, yada----If the flu of the swine still remains south of the border, where will one seek refuge for crimes of passion.

David
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 07:25:58 AM by David » Logged

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GeorgiePorgie
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 10:06:23 AM »

No reason to fear, we are not in the flight path, as of now, runway 310 is being expanded,the worst area of the flight path would be the area of the Post office at the intersection of Pinehill road and 611. We are already listening to the noise from 380, I don't think a small commercial jet once and a while will make a huge difference.

As far as Ron Lying/plausible denial/not telling the whole truth ETC , well that's another topic I know nothing about !

but look at the attached picture, you'll see the possible expansion of the runway, I have actually been there on my bicycle and noticed all the construction equipments, I don't believe there are about to rotate the runway, and going over the railroad track is not an option .
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 10:37:46 AM by GeorgiePorgie » Logged
David
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 11:51:54 AM »

Holy Mole-y,

Great response George; though for the moment even ten(10) 747 Jumbo jets plus the entire Pennsylvania population on Harley's riding along 380 concurrently, during the peak of 4th of July fireworks could not overpower the sound of the sizzling anger of those living within less than 200 feet from the end of the runway, for anyone even remotely inferring that the airport issue offers "No reason to fear".
(See my picture) It was taken from about 10 feet past the property line of the last house on Sydney.

Please enlighten us as to what matters most to most----Property values!

"I don't believe there are about to rotate the runway..."  Huh
Do you mean to tell us that planes that have crashed during take off and/or approach at other airports throughout the entire earth are somehow "magnetically" attracted to stay within the straight line of the runway? What about "Fuel Dumps"?  (That's what pilots do if plane fails to take off runway due to overweight)  Are co-pilots trained to pull out a huge funnel to ensure all the dumped fuel stays within airport "easements"? Will there be a "No Smoking Sign" posted at the end of the runway?

I was actually expecting Ron himself to come to the defense of this one...I'm not saying you're defending him, but please, let's be a bit more sensitive for all of us that are already taking a big hit on our property values as it is with the current condition of the market.

I just so happen to live directly across the street from 380 and can hear it faintly---I doubt it very much that anyone on Nadine is disturbed (in the sense of the sound bothering them) by any sounds coming from that highway. Hence the reason why I stated in my last post that the ones most affected are those living closest to the runway.

You mean to tell us that they are spending a little over 4 million dollars to expand an airport, just to accommodate, "...a small commercial jet once and a while..."

By the way...nice photo from above...on your bicycle. ;-)

P.S. Attached is the image of another set of minutes referring to "...another topic you know nothing about!"
http://www.stillwaterlakes.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=117.0;attach=33

Original Minutes can be found here:

http://www.coolbaughtwp.org/Township%20Minutes/2008/PC%20Minutes%2005_12_08.pdf
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 12:13:19 PM by David » Logged

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GeorgiePorgie
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 01:41:38 PM »

Holy Moly Alright, calm down !

I have taken several flights from AVP ( scranton airport ) so far over 10 flights, keep in mind that's an international airport, and yet none of them were any mid size or large planes, as a matter of facts, I would say most of my flights were on turbo-prop 2 engines with only three seats across type of planes. That's with passengers booked up to travel to Atlanta, Michigan, O'hare, or Philly,ETC the Scranton Airport had been revamped as of July 2007 to accommodate more passengers and larger jets, but the traffic isn't there yet.

I don't anticipate huge aircraft traffic to Mount Pocono Airport, whoever was on the committee and signed, did a good job looking at the expansion of runway 31-13, if it was the other runway, I would really have a great concern, that would be the runway with the flight path directly over SLCA. Being a pilot, I would think the other runway would be reserved for small airplanes as we have them now, and that would not change the nature of the noise, or the traffic the way we have it, nor would it endanger us here in SLCA.

And about fuel dumps, I don't believe, I have never heard of fuel dumps during takeoffs ! Fuel dumps are done prior to landing in case " the landing gears are stuck, an engine out, hijack, dead pilot, birds intake etc. etc " and that's usually noticed at a time where the pilot can make a decision where to land. And in that case, a pilot would pick AVP ( Scranton ) since it would be closer than the Hudson, and it has the "  proper emergency equipments,  runway foaming, etc " .

Please keep in mind, pilots of the larger anticipated planes, do not have to use the entire runway for take off, there is a procedure called  "Short runway takeoffs ", and as far as landing, the noise should be minimum since engines are usually cutoff to idle at touch down, and that would occur at an earlier point than the end of the runway.

Most of us in SLCA bought here to live here, if you are not planning to sell and move out, property values should be the last thing to think about, those who purchased here for an investment, should have done the proper study part of their investment strategy, meanwhile it's the hard economy that we have to ride out !
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Wildflower
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 03:22:59 PM »




   
 

Georgie,

As a homeowner on Sidney, my neighbors and I are feeling the impact of the airport expansion. What used to be dense brush and trees now is bare and sparse. While the trees on the other side of the tracks protected us from the noise and low flying aircraft now we have constant truck engines idling and working at 6 a.m. in the morning till approximately 6 p.m. in the evening. As far as the flight path you are incorrect, it is dependent on the wind direction. We have aircraft flying over our homes regularly. We have training helicopters taking off and landing every 15 minutes mostly on weekends and they do indeed fly over our homes to the point where the volume on your TV doesn't go high enough to hear it.  Since you don't live on Sidney your comments I assume are appropriate since it directly does not impact you.

Having attended a Airport Authority meeting last month I did pose some questions and one specific is not one community has voiced concern in the surrounding area. In fact this has been in the planning stage for 9 years. When asked if they realize we are experiencing aircraft flying over our homes and the noise level has increased their response was they shouldn't be and we didn't think to do a decimal study prior to cutting down trees. Now and when the runway is finished the aircraft should be coming in from the left which means over game lands and not across Stillwater property owners. When asked what kind of aircraft will be flying in and out I was told same as it is now with bigger commuter jets flying in to help stimulate economic growth. However going through the archives in the Pocono Record on articles published Tobyhanna army depot will also be utilizing the runway with turbojets now that it will be 5000 ft. also enabling aircraft of all types to land.

The bigger question is "Where was the board of Directors of Stillwater Lakes?" Their fiduciary duty is do what's in the best interest of this association, within these perimeters as well as locally, county and state! Their job is to protect the homeowners. However, doing research and reaching out on behalf of my neighbors and myself I find out that our President was involved with the Coolbaugh Township Planning Commission and had knowledge of what was going on yet didn't seem to think it was worthy to inform the associations members and giving us the option of letting them know who it would impact and whether WE as a community would like to be involved. Years ago we as a community stood together to protest the Flour Mill regardless of the outcome we stood together. Why weren't we given that opportunity again since it does impact some of this community?

I have remained a quiet observer for years in this community and now I am like others are fed up with the games. The question is to what extent is the community going to get involved now to help the homeowners on Sidney and to those on surrounding streets that have to put up with this? Since this has happened I have decided to get involved on two committees and would like to start seeing a change. The saying is "if you are going to complain than do something about it and I am. Members like you who speak without knowing the facts is what can keeps communities divided.


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David
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 06:01:24 PM »

Hmmmmm???


"...whoever was on the committee and signed, did a good job looking at the expansion of runway 31-13..." (Porgie 2009)

Stripes well earned.

Brown, but hey...they're still stripes.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 06:11:55 PM by David » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 09:32:23 PM »


Wildflour:

YOU ARE A PIECE OF WORK!

“I have remained a quiet observer for years in this community.......The question is to what extent is the community going to get involved now to help the homeowners on Sidney and to those on surrounding streets that have to put up with this?” 

OH! So now that your Peace & Quiet is being disturbed, you expect the entire community to come out and get involved?!!!. 
 
Where, were you when the thugs on the Board were petitioning the Township to expel the only resident of this community, brave enough to stand up to the creeps on the Board, like Schmerber, Kluge and Weinstein?

Were you, like so many other cowards afraid to make Noise?
Afraid to disturb the Peace!?
Afraid that if you made Noise your sewer would be disconnected?
Or, did you not like the Rumble of Discontent?
I will bet that you slept quite well, when all of that was going on!

SORRY! BUT YOU SHOULDA VOTED THE BUMBS OUT!

The more and bigger JETS that fly over Schmerber, Kluge and Weinstein’s house the better I will like it!

SOONER OR LATER THE BUMBS HAD TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS!

AIRPORT PLANNERS PLEASE BRING ON THE LARGEST OF YOUR JUMBO JETS! OR BETTER YET, ONE OF THOSE DEFECTIVE AIRBUSES FROM EUROPE!

GLORIA AL SENOR!
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David
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2009, 11:35:30 PM »

All-righty-then...

I would like to make my best attempt at putting things in perspective here.

First off, I'd like to say that one thing we could probably all agree on is that this board has to go. The ring of power has been in office for way too long and the natives are obviously getting beyond restless and this is a "common goal."

Second, it seems like the only way for us to truly accomplish something here, (even if many will call it private agendas) is to set the house on fire. (Not in the litteral sense!)

A clear example of this was the co-op/ PUC issue last year. That house fire surely brought out a lot of homeowners out of there homes and on to the front lawn.

The security issue was more like a controlled fire within the kitchen. Most folks just moved on to the next room, some came running out the front door; while others just stayed in the kitchen, not realizing how hot the fire was/is, and just how much we are getting burned by that fire.

Now comes the perfect opportunity (please allow me to remind you all  of the "common goal" I mentioned above) to set off a huge fire that threatens property values, in hopes that it will bring everyone out the house, and now it seems that the airport flames are being doused, by either, standing up for Ron, or by jumpin down the throats of folks for unfortunately waiting to come out when an issue hits even closer to home.


I think we could reach our common goal much quicker without the firemen.

No offense to the brave firefighters, of which one of them may have had to suffer the 3rd degree burns on his own, but really...for what ever reason folks are coming out of their "silent rooms", please let it be. We are being quite counter productive by trying to stiffle any new efforts of homeowners striving for the common goal, regardless of how long they've been silent in the past.

David
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 12:08:48 PM »


IF YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND ME THE FIRST TIME,
I WILL PUT IT IN PLANE LANGUAGE:

THE SILENT MAJORITY WILL PREVAIL!

  THE RESULTS WILL BE DEAFENING!

              GOD IS GREAT!

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David
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 01:10:09 PM »

I guess we will never understand you.

...and as for the ones to prevail, looks like the "Non-visible minority" are giving the Silent majority a run for their money.

The results may actually be revealing!

Carry on soldier!
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 12:22:52 AM »

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF DAVID!

NO ONE HAS ELECTED YOU TO SPEAK FOR "WE!"

WHAT WILL BE REVEALED IF ANYTHING, IS THE HIGH  LEVEL OF IGNORANCE
THAT EXISTS AMONG OUR  "NON-VISIBLE (PROPERTY VALUES ADDICTED) MINORITY."


« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 12:25:52 AM by FIDEL » Logged
David
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 08:15:51 AM »

Oh contrarer mofrair,

What continues to be revealed is a very "bitter" sweet soul on a mission to get the crowd to stand up, and just when the crowd begins to rise, he kicks them in the knees and/or steps on their toes.
...and all along I thought it was the community with issues.

If the (ONE) that hides behind the "Pro" dictator from "Cuba" from a town next to "Gomorrah" would just realize (WE) are all on the same side, maybe (WE) could get something accomplished here.

Imagine if you will, the battle field. One single soldier advancing...gets off some great shots at the enemy, but gets wounded as he moves forward. He turns to his side with hopes that his comrades are there to join battle with him, but no one is around. His only chance is the grenade he holds in his hand. He throws it...and low and behold, he inflicts tremendous damage on the enemy. Unfortunately, some of his comrades were in the vicinity and took on some of the ca lateral damage. He became a fallen soldier, but was satisfied with his handy work.

Years went by, the battles were few, but the war carried on. Now comes along some new recruits into this war; ready, willing and able to fight for a win.  As the calvary marches forward they come across the fallen soldier who offers great intell. They move on and realize they have to call on more troops in order to advance. At all cost, they make valiant efforts to multiply in numbers and push forward. Just as they begin approaching the battle field they begin firing off at the enemy. They are proud, as they see the fear in the eyes of the enemy, and they also see many of the infantry for the other side either retreat or cross over to the other side because they realize the victory of this war will also benefit them. During the gunfight, many of the new troops begin to take on fire...fire from all directions. Someone yells out, "Seize fire!!!" They begin to scout the area and find that most of the shots were coming from a "Fox hole" directly on their same side of the battle field.

To the surprise of many...it was the fallen soldier shooting them (WE) all in the back and feet.

WHY???
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GeorgiePorgie
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 09:03:46 AM »

Dear wildflower:

I am sorry it took me a while to reply.

I am not against any community standing up together, but members of community should stand for the right reasons and based on correct informmation as well.
"Years ago we as a community stood together to protest the Flour Mill regardless of the outcome we stood together "
In a way I am glad the Flour Mill project went into completion, it helped putting food on the table for more than 50 employees.  I am glad it is in our area, and they just opened a maintenance yard for thre trucks of the trucking company close by, and employ more people as well. The only negative affect of the flour mill, is the humming noise, and believe me I had no problem with it, knowing that more people are employed in our area, especially that I lived for a while a short distance from the mill, both Mario Scavello and I own adjacent properties on Mountain drive in Mount Pocono, and that's far closer to our properties over there, than any property in SLCA.

I do agree with you on the fact of standing together, and the fact that you were at least given the oppurtunity to protest it. Most people protesting are the one with the best intentions, but are usually given the wrong data. At SLCA we were not even informed of anything taking place ! I own a property in the SawCreek community, and we just succeeded in stopping PPL from installing  electrical high voltage cables in our community, mainly because our board acted properly, and had the best interest of the owners in mind.

The airport issue is different, I am sure when your house or my house or anyone else's house were being built here in SLCA, the noise has bothered someone close by, but I would say "That too shall pass " , in your stituation however, being on Sydney you'll continue to hear the noise even after to project completion.

One thing we should all remember, the Airport was here before most of these homes were built, it was also a reason that attracts more than few buyers to come to the Poconos, among them few people here in SLCA. The other thing is " Change is the only thing that remains constant"

And for David, as for now, complaining about the Airport runway expansion is a dead issue, since the project is in the works, and believe me no one is going to stop it, even if Ron Kluge tried his best, please remember, his signature was not the only one, he was just part of the " Local Political Machine "


I did own one time a house in California, right next to the highway, Caltrans installed a sound wall, and all of us, installed sound proof windows, it took care of the noise problem, later in years, I heard that in another scenario, where the Airport Authority subsidized the cost of all sound proof windows for few homes close by while they expanded a small runway. But that's California, it's a whole different country ( not just another state as far as I am concerned )

I had to make a correction about my last post regarding runways and wind direction, I believe the small aircrafts can and will still be able to use both runways, depending on the wind direction, and that's the same pattern as now, however the larger ones will be the ones to use the longer runway, since the other won't be long enough for take offs, and landings.

And of course anytime I try to supply correct information, I should be accused of being a spy, or someone who divides the community , on the take, E.T.C.



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David
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 10:08:52 AM »

"...even if Ron Kluge tried his best, please remember, his signature was not the only one, he was just part of the " Local Political Machine ""

George, You're missing the point here!  The other three members of the "Planning Commission" that signed do not have a fiduciary duty to the members of this association. If they did, then your comment above would suggest that we leave poor little old Ron alone, as he was "not the only one to sign".

We were basically sold out, among other things, and at the very least, the other board members need to do something about it, as it is now THEIR FIDUCIARY DUTY to boot this fibbing sell out! 

What's it going to be; Matt, Dave, Bonnie, Maria, Noreen, April???

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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2009, 09:52:26 AM »


David:

Not only were you sounding like Maria.  Now you a crooning like Curtis Moore!  You are becoming disjointed over the silent majority.  Please sit back, relax!  Hot Latino blood has never solved any problems in a civilized society.

I realize that Senior Citizens on a fix income appear to you to be bitter, but the fact is that we make up the majority of this community.

Sitting around on Mike’s deck sipping on beer and hallucinating as to how you, Lou and Annie are going to take over the Community is hardly what this community needs  We have had enough of people who spend our money like drunken sailors.

While there are property owners in this world like Mr. Collazo, looking to dissolve the association, we also have people like you looking to continue the association racket.

Courtesy of Curtis Moore:  By the way, are you current on your mortgage and membership dues?

Hmmnmm!

Not good sign for someone trying to take over the community financials!


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